It was only a matter of time before former First Lady Michelle Obama convinced her husband to make an appearance on her podcast.
Former President Barack Obama stopped by and was a guest on the July 16 episode of IMO, the show that Michelle co-hosts with her brother. The episode mainly revolves around a listener-submitted question about how to raise “emotionally intelligent, competent men” in a world where the male loneliness epidemic exists. The former commander-in-chief shared his opinions, saying that men need a range of different role models, and gave the example of a gay professor he had in college.
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This professor, Barack said, was out during a time when openly gay folks still weren’t out in life. “[He] became one of my favorite professors and was a great guy, and would call me out when I started saying stuff that was ignorant,” the former president said. “You need that! To show empathy and kindness.”
He goes on to say that young men should be open to diversifying their friend groups. “By the way, you need that person in your friend group so that if you then have a boy who is gay or nonbinary, or what have you, they have somebody that they can go, ‘Okay, I’m not alone in this,’” he said. “That, I think, is creating community. I know it’s corny, but it’s what they need.”
The former president has long been an ally of the LGBTQ+ community. Back in 2015, he appeared on the cover of Out and became the first president to be featured in an LGBTQ+ magazine. He spoke about the same professor during his interview with Out, saying he was the first openly gay person he ever met.
He also discussed the Supreme Court’s decision to uphold Obergefell v. Hodges and expressed pride in ushering in a new era of acceptance for the LGBTQ+ community. “I wasn’t surprised by the Supreme Court’s decision, but, like millions of Americans, I was proud and happy that it came down the way it did — and I was honored to stand in the Rose Garden and reiterate for every American that we are strongest, that we are most free, when all of us are treated equally. I was proud to say that love is love.”
This article originally appeared on Out: Barack Obama explains why he thinks all men need queer people in their lives